Saturday, September 20, 2008

Dates! A Foray Into the Realm of Utter Hilarity

So as some of you have gathered, I've been feeling kind of down of late.

However, one of the books I read this Shabbos made me laugh out loud. It is entitled The Frum Rules and is a lady's guide to dating. There was one section in particular that I found hilarious:

"Oh, and by the way, no learning boy is looking for a chavrusa- he is looking for a wife! You do not need to prove that you are a talmid chacham in a skirt!

"And that reminds me: No professional man wants a business consultant- he too is looking for a wife! You do not need to prove your business acumen!"

~67

Sweetheart, have you ever looked at Sanhedrin 109b? A wife is someone who is learned or pragmatic as necessary, (see Nazir 23b for some quick thinking) and she certainly needs a mind.

I found the entire book hilarious, especially all this advice that one must act in a soft or feminine manner. "But for heaven's sake, will you please stay soft? You are, after all, a member of the female gender. Although it is tempting to buy into the "I am woman, hear me roar" thing, men, who by nature are motivated by instinct, will not find this an attractive feature for a future spouse (Rule #12)."

~Page 134

Oh, the poor man who dates me...! Opinionated, outspoken, definitely not soft and demure and meek...alas for him, the poor victim! Alas for us all!

14 comments:

~ Sarah ~ said...

i need some comic relief... i'm gonna have to acquire that book :P

Gavi said...

I think that if my wife were "soft and demure" I would go insane... Of of the many things I love about her is that she is opinionated, and not afraid to express what's on her mind. She's smart too ;-)

Cf. Rav Wolbe's "Ma'amarei Hadracha Lechatanim," where he quotes Rabbi Akiva Eiger, who writes that he often had learned discussions with his wife regarding emunas Hashem until the middle of the night!!!

a said...

Chana,you are opinionated and independent,but very feminine and pretty .
But the rules are rediculous. You made me laugh!

Special Ed said...

The purple book? We have staff readings at the seforim sale.

Irina Tsukerman said...

This is what people tell me all the time... and it's never EVER going to work! LOL! The most hilarious and unrealistic advice ever...

uri said...

Chana,what is this author's definition of a good wife?

Tobie said...

Wow. That's the kind of funny that would be a lot more funny if you didn't know a lot of very nice girls who took it seriously.

Shimon said...

after I first acknowledge that I myself much appreciate and have learnt much from this blog

i would just like to take the job of devils advocate for a moment:

1) there is a very beautiful pshat by R' Schwab (in Ma'ayan Beis Ha'Shoeva p. Kedoshim) on the gemara in Nedarim 51a which touches upon the wife/chavrusa issue

2) being pragmatic and having a good mind is not necessarily the same as being learned in the specific fields which relate to becoming Talmid Chacham

i think a point worth considering is - what positive image traits are the most important to project in the artificial setting that the dating atmosphere provides? - and here you cannot completely marginalize the points being made (although I do agree that they are taken to an extreme which does make them sound quite funny)


btw - does your middle name happen tpo be - Yalta by any chance....

NoFreeLunch said...

I thought the "rule" about getting your eyebrows done was pretty funny too. That's a rule????

Also, the one about having a parent there when he picks you up so he'll treat you respectfully. Isn't the whole point of the date to see whether he treats you respectfully of his own volition? Not at a parent's prompting?

Chana said...

hi shimon! (nope, my name is not yalta)

I knew someone was going to call me on this. I agree. One's wife doesn't necessarily have to be learned, or a Talmid Chacham, and she certainly doesn't have to be her husband's chavrusa. But to tell young women that they specifically shouldn't be learned, or act it, supposing they are, is completely ridiculous.

"i think a point worth considering is - what positive image traits are the most important to project in the artificial setting that the dating atmosphere provides?"

But why must one project points? Cannot one simply be oneself, whoever that is- not a mocked-up, supposedly kind, considerate, sweet person who doesn't exist? Whoever the person is, that is who she ought to be; don't you think it would be awful if someone (let's take me for example) followed the rules of this book to the letter, deceived you utterly about my personality and values, got married and ended up being completely different? As for the lady in question, if learning is important to her, or she is smart, or perhaps she really is of the caliber of a Talmida Chachama, there is no reason for her to hide it.

Shimon said...

ok. I also knew you would call me out on the projection point.
i agree with you regarding character traits. These should not be disguised (whenever my wife tells me that i'm too quit, i am quite relieved to be able to remind her that even on our first date she had to do 90% of the talking...)
When it comes to different levels of scholarship (which are not at the foundation of the bayis ne'eman and can be potentially intimidating at first glance) i'm not sure the case is so clear cut.

Chana said...

hold off a moment- a woman needs to worry about the fact that she's potentially intimidating?

but a man- for a man it's expected that he dazzle his wife with his brilliant knowledge base- is that it?

Gavi said...

Shimon,

I know which Rav Shwab essay you are referring to - I read that as referring to a woman who ONLY wants to be "mefalpel kemo zachar" at the expense of the other aspects of her femininity...

sara said...

well chana, it seems that both you and i are doomed if this book's opinion holds true :)