R' Twersky & R' Reiss On 'Being Gay In The Orthodox World'
My friend (male) went to both lectures and typed up what was said. The notes are available for anyone who is part of Yeshiva University; email me from your YU address and I'll send them to you.
Those of us who are alumni no longer have our yu.edu e-mail addreses (or in my case ymail.yu.edu I am dating my self a bit.) How can we get a copy of the transcripts?
The Gemara parallels גזל and עריות the they are both very easy to succumb to, as a person's will desires them.
There have been unfortunately news items recently highlighting Frum jews monetary indiscretions, and nobody would suggest we understand what caused them to do it. Nobody would suggest we put ourselves in their place, empathize with their severe financial stress, and the need to support a starving family.
If you're an alumnus and tell me the truth about it, I'll send you the notes to. The reason I'm doing it this way is because since this wasn't linked on YUTorah, I'm making the reasonable assumption this response was meant to be internal to YU. If things change and I'm told it was meant to be public, I'll obviously post it up publicly.
It's funny, Chana, that you blatantly disregarded R' Blau's request to not post any transcripts/recordings, but are scrupulously refraining from posting this, even though it doesn't seem like anyone asked you explicitly.
In R' Blau's case the event was open to Wurzweiler, the YU undergraduate community and the public. In contrast, this event was held in the Glueck Beis and as of now, it seems, only meant for YU students. It's two very different events. Also, these are not my notes but rather my friend's and I have no desire to get him in trouble.
re: YU's decision not to put it up: No offense meant, we have a rule in the corporate world that if you don't give information, people will substitute the worst possible interpretation. When one (not you) has a reputation of constant spinning, no one believes a word you say. KT Joel Rich
In R' Blau's case the event was open to Wurzweiler, the YU undergraduate community and the public. In contrast, this event was held in the Glueck Beis and as of now, it seems, only meant for YU students. It's two very different events. Also, these are not my notes but rather my friend's and I have no desire to get him in trouble.
But, from what I read from the other comment, it appears there was a request not to post any transcripts--I'm not nagging, I'm asking, for you, why the situations the one took place under justify ignoring the request to not post transcripts?
1. There were at least 100 people who wanted to come, arrived on time and didn't get in based on space issues. Why should they not get to hear what was said just because the organizer picked a room that wasn't big enough?
2. There are plenty of people beyond the New York community who will hopefully learn to feel for those in this situation based on reading this.
3. The event was a public event and whether or not there was a recording or transcript, everyone would be talking about it. That means the entire Orthodox Jewish community. The choice was between having people talk about it without having any idea what was actually said, which leads to a lot of confusion, and having people talk about what actually WAS said. I thought the latter was a better option.
4. R' Blau said that he was concerned people would take snippets out of context. With an audio recording, that makes sense. How many people will spend 2 hours listening to a full recording when they could alternatively just see a snippet quoted? When it is written up, all in one forum and in one place, if anything it REDUCES the ability of people to take snippets out of context since the full context is here.
Also, snippets would be 'taken out of context' anyway because the press (Observer, Commentator, Jewish Post, etc) was there and was obviously going to be quoting excerpts from the event. If the press could be there and write articles, it follows a student should be able to be there and take notes.
One more point: R' Blau was concerned about the panelists' privacy when he asked for this not to be recorded. I asked each and every panelist whether I could use their name or not if I put this up on my blog and respected their wishes. So I received permission regarding the privacy component.
*nods* That all makes sense. As I said, I wasn't nagging--and I agree with you that the right move to do is post a transcript, for the reasons you gave but especially as it's not an issue exclusive to one small place--but honestly curious.
Rav Twersky and I assume Rabbi Reiss saw the recorders on the shtenders in front of them and clearly knew they were being recorded and it would hence end up in some form on the internet, all the while not mentioning a request that it not be recorded. That being said I don't see any reason why these speeches should not be reproduced. Besides, the Roshei Yeshivas' reaction should be just as scrupulously reproduced as was the transcript of the event, to be fair ofcourse.
If the recording ends up on YUTorah, =============== It is currently not planned to bet be on YUTORAH - a big mistake IMHO - but it may be elsewhere. Stay tuned. KT Joel Rich
I don't think that was rabbi blau's only point vis-a-via the snippets but rather that transcripts of lectures fail to provide the context, emphasis, tone and unfortunately fail to be 100% accurately certainly in this case when much of the controversy stems on a single throw away comment of one of the speakers a transcript does a disservice. It allows for the harping on single sentences and nonsensical "diyyukim" that cause the inaccurate and distorted characterizations of events that have sprung up in the mouths of many who were simply looking to the bash the event. Perhaps Rabbi Blau's rationales don't always need to be explained to everyone in a public forum.
In this modern day and age, where we have phones, and cellphones, and computers with email- why guess and make assumptions about what this or that person intended? Pick up the phone and ask Rabbi Blau! (or email him) Trust me, he picks up the phone.
The same goes for Rabbis Reiss and Twersky!
Don't just post a transcript or not post a transcript based on your own assumptions.
Rabbi Blau also responds to email. The last time I called his office at YU, the person who answered the phone told me that sending him an email is more effective than leaving a voicemail message at the office.
In this modern day and age, where we have phones, and cellphones, and computers with email- why guess and make assumptions about what this or that person intended? Pick up the phone and ask Rabbi Blau! (or email him) Trust me, he picks up the phone.
The same goes for Rabbis Reiss and Twersky!
Don't just post a transcript or not post a transcript based on your own assumptions.
Excuse me,but you sound awfully angry. Please tone it down.
Those of us who are alumni no longer have our yu.edu e-mail addreses (or in my case ymail.yu.edu I am dating my self a bit.) How can we get a copy of the transcripts?
ReplyDeleteHere is a Rabbi Twersky's main points:
ReplyDeletehttp://jgadfly.blogspot.com/2009/12/yu-rabbis-on-homosexuality.html
I want to remain anonymous, must I use my YU email address?
ReplyDeleteIf you wish to remain anonymous the world will know.
ReplyDeletehow do i email you?
ReplyDeleteTo e-mail Chana just click on e-mail listed under her complete profile-I just figured this out.
ReplyDeleteThe Gemara parallels גזל and עריות the they are both very easy to succumb to, as a person's will desires them.
ReplyDeleteThere have been unfortunately news items recently highlighting Frum jews monetary indiscretions, and nobody would suggest we understand what caused them to do it. Nobody would suggest we put ourselves in their place, empathize with their severe financial stress, and the need to support a starving family.
We only condemn it under the strongest terms.
If you're an alumnus and tell me the truth about it, I'll send you the notes to. The reason I'm doing it this way is because since this wasn't linked on YUTorah, I'm making the reasonable assumption this response was meant to be internal to YU. If things change and I'm told it was meant to be public, I'll obviously post it up publicly.
ReplyDeleteAww, I'm jealous. I would love to know what was said.
ReplyDeleteaudio of both sichos will be posted online later today, no need to email chana
ReplyDeleteIf the audio is actually posted then someone should let me know because I will post up the notes. Until it's posted, I assume it's under wraps.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny, Chana, that you blatantly disregarded R' Blau's request to not post any transcripts/recordings, but are scrupulously refraining from posting this, even though it doesn't seem like anyone asked you explicitly.
ReplyDeleteIn R' Blau's case the event was open to Wurzweiler, the YU undergraduate community and the public. In contrast, this event was held in the Glueck Beis and as of now, it seems, only meant for YU students. It's two very different events. Also, these are not my notes but rather my friend's and I have no desire to get him in trouble.
ReplyDeleteRav Twersky is speaking tonight at Stern at 7 pm on the first floor of 245 Lex.
ReplyDeletere: YU's decision not to put it up:
ReplyDeleteNo offense meant, we have a rule in the corporate world that if you don't give information, people will substitute the worst possible interpretation. When one (not you) has a reputation of constant spinning, no one believes a word you say.
KT
Joel Rich
In R' Blau's case the event was open to Wurzweiler, the YU undergraduate community and the public. In contrast, this event was held in the Glueck Beis and as of now, it seems, only meant for YU students. It's two very different events. Also, these are not my notes but rather my friend's and I have no desire to get him in trouble.
ReplyDeleteBut, from what I read from the other comment, it appears there was a request not to post any transcripts--I'm not nagging, I'm asking, for you, why the situations the one took place under justify ignoring the request to not post transcripts?
Rose,
ReplyDeleteThis was my thought process.
1. There were at least 100 people who wanted to come, arrived on time and didn't get in based on space issues. Why should they not get to hear what was said just because the organizer picked a room that wasn't big enough?
2. There are plenty of people beyond the New York community who will hopefully learn to feel for those in this situation based on reading this.
3. The event was a public event and whether or not there was a recording or transcript, everyone would be talking about it. That means the entire Orthodox Jewish community. The choice was between having people talk about it without having any idea what was actually said, which leads to a lot of confusion, and having people talk about what actually WAS said. I thought the latter was a better option.
4. R' Blau said that he was concerned people would take snippets out of context. With an audio recording, that makes sense. How many people will spend 2 hours listening to a full recording when they could alternatively just see a snippet quoted? When it is written up, all in one forum and in one place, if anything it REDUCES the ability of people to take snippets out of context since the full context is here.
Also, snippets would be 'taken out of context' anyway because the press (Observer, Commentator, Jewish Post, etc) was there and was obviously going to be quoting excerpts from the event. If the press could be there and write articles, it follows a student should be able to be there and take notes.
One more point: R' Blau was concerned about the panelists' privacy when he asked for this not to be recorded. I asked each and every panelist whether I could use their name or not if I put this up on my blog and respected their wishes. So I received permission regarding the privacy component.
ReplyDelete*nods* That all makes sense. As I said, I wasn't nagging--and I agree with you that the right move to do is post a transcript, for the reasons you gave but especially as it's not an issue exclusive to one small place--but honestly curious.
ReplyDeleteRav Twersky and I assume Rabbi Reiss saw the recorders on the shtenders in front of them and clearly knew they were being recorded and it would hence end up in some form on the internet, all the while not mentioning a request that it not be recorded.
ReplyDeleteThat being said I don't see any reason why these speeches should not be reproduced.
Besides, the Roshei Yeshivas' reaction should be just as scrupulously reproduced as was the transcript of the event, to be fair ofcourse.
Anon 3:23,
ReplyDeleteIf the recording ends up on YUTorah, then I'll know it was meant to be public. Until then, I see no reason to assume it was.
If the recording ends up on YUTorah,
ReplyDelete===============
It is currently not planned to bet be on YUTORAH - a big mistake IMHO - but it may be elsewhere. Stay tuned.
KT
Joel Rich
I've heard they're planning to post it to TorahWeb though it's not up yet.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that was rabbi blau's only point vis-a-via the snippets but rather that transcripts of lectures fail to provide the context, emphasis, tone and unfortunately fail to be 100% accurately certainly in this case when much of the controversy stems on a single throw away comment of one of the speakers a transcript does a disservice. It allows for the harping on single sentences and nonsensical "diyyukim" that cause the inaccurate and distorted characterizations of events that have sprung up in the mouths of many who were simply looking to the bash the event. Perhaps Rabbi Blau's rationales don't always need to be explained to everyone in a public forum.
ReplyDeleteIn this modern day and age, where we have phones, and cellphones, and computers with email- why guess and make assumptions about what this or that person intended? Pick up the phone and ask Rabbi Blau! (or email him) Trust me, he picks up the phone.
ReplyDeleteThe same goes for Rabbis Reiss and Twersky!
Don't just post a transcript or not post a transcript based on your own assumptions.
Rabbi Blau also responds to email. The last time I called his office at YU, the person who answered the phone told me that sending him an email is more effective than leaving a voicemail message at the office.
ReplyDeleteDecember 29, 2009 5:58 PM
ReplyDeleteIn this modern day and age, where we have phones, and cellphones, and computers with email- why guess and make assumptions about what this or that person intended? Pick up the phone and ask Rabbi Blau! (or email him) Trust me, he picks up the phone.
The same goes for Rabbis Reiss and Twersky!
Don't just post a transcript or not post a transcript based on your own assumptions.
Excuse me,but you sound awfully angry. Please tone it down.
it's not anger, it's sexual tension from being in the closet
ReplyDeleteRav Twersky's remarks have been posted to TorahWeb: http://www.torahweb.org/audioFrameset.html#audio=rtwe_122809
ReplyDeleteR' Twersky's speech seems to be up on TorahWeb. With the title, A Response to the Recent "Orthodox" Gay Forum, no less.
ReplyDeleteCute, TorahWeb, very cute.
Haha, good timing, other Anonymous 11:00pm!
ReplyDeleteA non-Facebook link (open to everyone) to Levovitz's Point by Point Rebuttal of Rabbi Twersky can be found on:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.syaross.org/misc/gaypanel/response.html
Great content articles & Good a site…
ReplyDelete