tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post986020801365963868..comments2024-03-18T03:40:39.185-04:00Comments on The Curious Jew: Adam, The Silent Witness (From a Literal Point of View)Chanahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17655144434904957767noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-91847639333258158882007-04-30T16:15:00.000-04:002007-04-30T16:15:00.000-04:00Nice Post.I think you might enjoy an entirely diff...Nice Post.<BR/><BR/>I think you might enjoy an entirely different take on Adam & Eve by psychologist, Naomi H. Rosenblatt, the author of Wrestling with Angels. She depicts Eve in a radically different way than in the past. Here, it is the woman who brings knowledge and personal growth to mankind. She is no longer the temptress but a savior of sorts! For more details you can see my post at http://shmuzings.blogspot.com/2006/06/eden-revisited.htmlsmoohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16540322073693784985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-83648932033600682862007-04-25T16:54:00.000-04:002007-04-25T16:54:00.000-04:00Dare I ask you to name your stakes, my friend? Tho...Dare I ask you to name your stakes, my friend? Though they'd have to be pretty high indeed for me to start playing such a dangerous game. Actually, I think I have enough sense to listen to your disclaimers. [Nearly] silent witness I'll remain!M.R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01871988896906196843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-76624040458747303662007-04-25T16:21:00.000-04:002007-04-25T16:21:00.000-04:00Larry,Thank you. :DThe Friendly Neighborhood Piper...Larry,<BR/><BR/>Thank you. :D<BR/><BR/>The Friendly Neighborhood Piper,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your point of view!<BR/><BR/>Chaya and Josh,<BR/><BR/>I quite agree with you. It <I>is</I> a curse; I was simply trying to demonstrate why it might logically make sense- why it is a logical punishment. In fact, so much do I agree with you that I said <A HREF="http://mb.sparknotes.com/mb.epl?b=50&m=1032700&h=gemdancer1234,curse" REL="nofollow">exactly the same thing way back when.</A><BR/><BR/>David Fryman,<BR/><BR/>I meant it more as a disclaimer than an apology, though either way, the truth of it is that it is a strange and heady feeling for me to be allowed to look at my own Torah the way I've always liked to. Until now, I had forbidden myself to look at the Torah as I wished, a necessary action brought on by my stay at my first high school, Templars. Hence my initial hesitancy, and more importantly, my fear of having certain people pounce on me. I figured I would siedestep the issue by telling such people to leave me alone by intimating this post is not meant for them to begin with. The truth is that it is not- for such people, such a post would seem irreverant, heretical and problematic. And I am far too emotionally tired to expend the necessary effort defending myself, though I would do it if the stakes were high enough.Chanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17655144434904957767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-45503684308631225632007-04-25T13:24:00.000-04:002007-04-25T13:24:00.000-04:00Chana, very nice idea. Not sure why you apologize ...Chana, very nice idea. Not sure why you apologize for the "very radical reading of the Torah." It's true that we have a midrashic tradition but we have a peshat tradition as well.David Frymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08574766553033627700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-15100423571109493202007-04-25T09:09:00.000-04:002007-04-25T09:09:00.000-04:00he will learn that at times he must rule over his ...<I>he will learn that at times he must rule over his wife. </I><BR/><BR/>RYH Henkin notes in "Equality Lost" that "V'el isheich t'shukaseich" is not a command to Adam, but is rather a curse, a change in Chava's psyche. This curse serves as a psychological shackle to mitigate the female's innate control over the male (as per "ha-kol holeich achar ha-isha")Josh M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14414532577328945154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-44345902783524046592007-04-24T23:55:00.000-04:002007-04-24T23:55:00.000-04:00bs'dHey Chana,I really enjoyed your analysis. I j...bs'd<BR/><BR/>Hey Chana,<BR/><BR/>I really enjoyed your analysis. I just have two comments.<BR/><BR/>1. About your question concerning the bracha in birchot hashachar that says that the rooster can discern between day and night. You quoted a less literal explanation of the bracha that day and night actually refer to good and evil, respectively. Since your whole analysis is based on reading the psukim very literally, perhaps it is wise to keep in mind the literal meaning of the bracha as well, i.e. the rooster's ability to discern between night and day. Also, although I do not know the source for the deeper explanation of the bracha, when I learned that explanation, I learned that the word "sechvi," which is translated as rooster, could actually refer to man's "lev." So if you follow the deeper meaning through, then it refers to man's ability to discern between good and evil. (In any case, it's necessary to find the original source of this interpretation to come to a more definitive understanding of the bracha.)<BR/><BR/>2. You wrote:<BR/>"Formerly passive, formerly hearkening to Eve's voice without raising objection, new Adam will be toughened, strengthened. He will work the earth through the sweat of his brow; he will learn that at times he must rule over his wife."<BR/>I disagree that Adam, or all men after him, must ever learn that at times they must rule over their wives. Just as working the earth through the sweat of one's brow is an avoidable curse (take up a different profession) and just as painful childbirth is an avoidable curse (drugs work wonders, or so I've heard), man's domination over his wife is a curse, not a Torah-prescribed outcome. (This idea is based on a shiur given by R' Dr. Dovid Gottlieb.) I understand that you were trying to give a full description of Adam's personality, but I think that it's important to keep in mind the pshat of the psukim--domination over women is a curse, something that men should not strive to achieve. (I know that your analysis is a literary, not religious, one, so forgive me if I've reacted too strongly.)<BR/><BR/>Kol ha'kavod on a thoughtful analysis.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-88586873070855955692007-04-24T23:16:00.000-04:002007-04-24T23:16:00.000-04:00Just a passing commenter...Yes, he was with her, i...Just a passing commenter...<BR/>Yes, he was with her, it is obvious from the text. That is why we need to look at the Second Adam (Jesus Christ) who didn't make the same mistake, he told the Serpent what he could do with his conniving words.The Friendly Neighborhood Piperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07801966842022621248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-80801488375740498752007-04-24T22:23:00.000-04:002007-04-24T22:23:00.000-04:00Wow. I'll have to think about this for a bit. Go...Wow. I'll have to think about this for a bit. Good work.Larry Lennhoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06578073969473815180noreply@blogger.com