tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post7493630843040497575..comments2024-03-18T03:40:39.185-04:00Comments on The Curious Jew: The Judaic Ideal: “Right Reason” as FlawedChanahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17655144434904957767noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-80003486770478875352007-10-02T14:46:00.000-04:002007-10-02T14:46:00.000-04:00One can be both devout and heretical; I think Milt...One can be both devout and heretical; I think Milton is indeed such an example (from the Christian perspective). I'd love to hear Rabbi Aharon Lichtenstein's take on this.Charlie Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17667135360784254574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-2156537671944883042007-10-02T02:52:00.000-04:002007-10-02T02:52:00.000-04:00I'm under the impression that the Tree of Life and...I'm under the impression that the Tree of Life and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil are the same. It's that Adam seperated it in his mind and fully consumed fruit from just one side, causing the unity to vanish, which made evil.<BR/><BR/>My understanding is that this has nothing to do with Adam's <I>reasoning</I>. For instance, if Adam and Eve were tempted, reasoned, and yet denied to eat, then under your hypothesis the temptation/reasoning alone was the sin and not their answer/action. Thereby Adam and Eve caused sin by the mere entrance of the serpent's statements. So, it doesn't make logical sense to argue from that perspective. It also doesn't hold, because saying that temptations are the cause of evil seems so erroneous. And that is actually a Christian concept: "The devil made me do it". Rather, I've found that in Judaism it's the person that causes evil. It's when we're tempted and overcome our temptation, that we survive and not fall.<BR/><BR/>To me, evil doesn't seem bound by reasoning, but rather a seperation from what was initially in union.<BR/><BR/>It's not the questioning and reasoning that is evil, but rather the seperation that is caused by the conclusion. This "Otherside"(cheesy RHCP reference for you) is where Adam was going, where evil can only achieve reality by human interaction: from the Sitra Achra.<BR/><BR/>Also, writers like Gershom Scholem provide loads of evidence and passages that disagree with your view of the Judaic View. Not to mention, Christianity had it's roots in Judaism.haKiruvhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12364180049796549383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-59808892068915433902007-10-01T14:00:00.000-04:002007-10-01T14:00:00.000-04:00Daniel,I think you and I are on the same page. Wh...Daniel,<BR/><BR/>I think you and I are on the same page. When I say "mainstream", I am referring to the major branches of Christianity, such as Catholicism, Protestantism, Orthodoxy, vs the more marginal groups, not necessarily in the context of England of that time.e-kvetcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11235994048517019317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-26039217415188018182007-10-01T13:43:00.000-04:002007-10-01T13:43:00.000-04:00Speaking of "devout Christians," let alone "mainst...Speaking of "devout Christians," let alone "mainstream Christians," in seventeenth century England is fraught with difficulty. You really need to establish terms of reference first. Remember that Milton had lived through a long and bitter civil war fought, in part, over what true Christianity was. This was a question of extreme relevance for Milton; he held a government post under the victorious (Puritan) Commonwealth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-71011471901901525402007-10-01T12:58:00.000-04:002007-10-01T12:58:00.000-04:00Nice work.VeryOr some may say "Very nice work" :)<I>Nice work.<BR/>Very</I><BR/><BR/>Or some may say "Very nice work" :)e-kvetcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11235994048517019317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-48380071948127891592007-10-01T12:57:00.000-04:002007-10-01T12:57:00.000-04:00I wonder if the fact that he lived in the "Age of...I wonder if the fact that he lived in the "Age of Reason" had also something to do with his appeal to Reason.<BR/><BR/><I>take on Milton was that he was an extremely devout Christian (this is as opposed to Professor Silver, who sees Milton as being somewhat heretical.)</I><BR/><BR/>I think it is a documented fact that Milton held 'heretical" beliefs from the POV of mainstream Christianity. (very similar to Newton, btw). However, he probably considered himself just as Christian as the next guy, certainly no less devout, much like Reform Jews today consider themselves no less devout than Orthodox. Though I assume your professor probably meant "devout mainstream Christian".<BR/><BR/>Nice work.<BR/>Verye-kvetcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11235994048517019317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-79206992117047141062007-10-01T12:40:00.000-04:002007-10-01T12:40:00.000-04:00So I wrote this paper for Professor Weidhorn's cla...So I wrote this paper for Professor Weidhorn's class and his take on Milton was that he was an extremely devout Christian (this is as opposed to Professor Silver, who sees Milton as being somewhat heretical.) These two sides to Milton are extremes in this case because as a Christian, he needs to pay proper respect to the source material/ figures at hand (biblical and sacred, obviously) but at the same time he wants his work to be gripping and fascinating with human and real characters, which could (but does not have to) mean treating the source material with less reverence. So he had to figure out how to connect both aspects of his personality/ beliefs in order to create this work.<BR/><BR/>His Christianity is the impetus behind his writing this work; he explains at the beginning that it is his desire to "justify the ways of God to man." He attempts this by trying to make the Fall appear logical to mankind.<BR/><BR/>And no problem!Chanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17655144434904957767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-63226381552636314462007-10-01T12:17:00.000-04:002007-10-01T12:17:00.000-04:00>Milton, caught as ever between two extremes, his ...>Milton, caught as ever between two extremes, his existence as a great literary figure and his existence as a devout Christian, desires to make the Fall appear logical to mankind<BR/><BR/>Can you explain why these are two extremes? Of what scale?<BR/><BR/>Also, what does his Christianity have to do with "making the Fall appear logical to mankind"?<BR/><BR/>Thanks!e-kvetcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11235994048517019317noreply@blogger.com