tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post6171304184868734913..comments2024-03-18T03:40:39.185-04:00Comments on The Curious Jew: What Does Orthodoxy Stand For?Chanahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17655144434904957767noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-69501723832930994782014-06-08T21:58:19.118-04:002014-06-08T21:58:19.118-04:00"Down your weapons" wrote Delia O'Ri..."Down your weapons" wrote Delia O'Riordan on http://www.visutech.net/peace365/read-petition.asp What would you write as an Orthodox Jew!?<br />;~)Marek Zielinskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04347601859892566491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-64484768977258587072013-12-16T15:15:10.350-05:002013-12-16T15:15:10.350-05:00Great post.
The philosophical issues you brought...Great post. <br /><br />The philosophical issues you brought up have been brought up many times, with Farber never really responding. Not only that, but theTorah.com has become quite "good" at censoring critics of their positions from their website.Holy Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-20175746811030739442013-11-12T06:37:34.239-05:002013-11-12T06:37:34.239-05:00After you wrote such a comprehensive treatise, I f...After you wrote such a comprehensive treatise, I feel it's almost unsuitable to respond in only a nutshell. <br />But here is my simple definition of Orthodox Judaism:<br /><br />"Uncompromising loyalty and adherence to the strict letter of Jewish law and Hashkafa, as established by Moses and his successors, the Sages"<br /><br />a) All changes, adaptations and variances are only for the purpose and goal to comply with this.<br /><br />b) All changes, adaptations and variances can be instituted only by qualified, authorized and holy expert Rabbis.<br />This includes both, leniencies and stringencies.<br />And all within the Mosaic and Talmudical guidelines.<br /><br />c) This does often result in differences of opinions and rulings, but all have the same goal in mind, namely, to sustain the ancient, basically unchanging, Torah teachings.FFBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-67282770542242956632013-11-04T13:58:00.460-05:002013-11-04T13:58:00.460-05:00This is a very well-written post. Thank you, Chana...This is a very well-written post. Thank you, Chana.<br /><br />I'll address just a minor point, for now. The fact that R. Farber is raising his ideas ostensibly under the umbrella of Orthodoxy is the main issue. I don't envy him his position. I am not a rabbi or teacher in the Orthodox community, so while I do affiliate with Orthodoxy for the most part, I don't feel the need to insist that my beliefs, which are not far off from Farber's, be considered Orthodox.<br /><br />I'm going to copy what I wrote to a friend about Yeshivat Chovevei Torah and Open Orthodoxy, but is applicable to my feelings aboyt Faber, their most controversial musmach:<br /><br />So much of YCT's issues are because they're in the bind of insisting they are "Orthodox". I understand why they need to do that - the constituency they are trying to reach is Modern Orthodoxy, and the shuls and schools they want their rabbis to be placed in are Orthodox. As [another friend] pointed out to me yesterday, where is Halivni's UTJ now? They abandoned the "Orthodox" label, so of course Orthodoxy left them out in the cold.<br /><br />But personally? I couldn't care less. I guess I consider myself in the extreme left of the Open Orthodox part of the spectrum, but a label is just a label, and I don't care what people see me as.<br /><br />YCT keeps insisting that they are Orhodox, yet there is no question that they and especially some of their students are crossing lines that have long been considered red lines in Orthodoxy (a movement which is less than 200 years old, BTW) and even the lines of normative Judaism before the advent of the dogmatically crystallizing Orthodox Judaism. So I certainly understand the pushback.<br /><br />I like YCT and am very happy they exist. The hashkafa that they advocate is very much up my alley. I just wish they didn't have to tie themselves in pretzel knots to insist "we are Orthodox"! David Staumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04092344925121412070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-65473701329184373672013-11-04T02:00:46.933-05:002013-11-04T02:00:46.933-05:00Some sources on on non-literal interpretations:
...Some sources on on non-literal interpretations:<br /><br /> "On the Limits of Non-Literal Interpretation of Scripture<br />from an Orthodox Perspective" <br />(quoting Emunah V'deios and discussing slippery slope) <br /><br />http://www.yutorah.org/_shiurim/%2FJoshua%20L.%20Golding%20-%20On%20the%20Limits%20of%20Non-Literal%20Interpretation%20of%20Scripture%20From%20An%20Orthodox%20Perspective%20(1-1-2001).pdf<br /><br />"Avraham and Sarah in Provence"<br /><br />http://www.hakirah.org/Vol%206%20Buchman.pdf<br /><br />Interview with Rabbi Eli Baruch Shulman(pg 9):<br /><br />http://www.kolhamevaser.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/kol-hamevaser-26-finalr.pdfShades of Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03029177164921795725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-26905317816965806082013-11-03T23:29:35.795-05:002013-11-03T23:29:35.795-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Shades of Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03029177164921795725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-67719879062795299102013-11-03T14:24:45.849-05:002013-11-03T14:24:45.849-05:00(a)
Look at Berakhot 22b. Rava lays down the law....(a)<br /><br />Look at Berakhot 22b. Rava lays down the law. A man who saw a seminal emission must immerse in a mikva to learn Torah. This is the halacha. But then Rashi, perhaps influenced by the fact that this is no longer the practice, says this: actually, one of the earlier opinions, that of R' Yehuda Ben Beteira, is followed and we are no longer required to immerse after seminal emissions. If you read the surrounding 5 pages or so, you will see it used to be the halakha that men were required to immerse, and we all know this is no longer the case.<br /><br />On the following page in berakhot, you will notice that the halakha required men to wear tefillin all day (except when eating a public meal, or using the bathroom). We know this is no longer the case.<br /><br />Read Daniel Sperber's works and you'll learn how prayer changed since Chazal's times, despite the well known halakha that no one should mess with the prayers.<br /><br />This all shows that chazal were vessels for the tradition, aka judges, AND AT THE SAME TIME also legislators. You can easily see this by learning almost any 10 pages of the Talmud. Or by learning most Rishonim on this topic. (Read Mattan Erder's thesis.)<br /><br />In other words halakha changes incrementally, but still remains entirely based on the foundation of the halakhic system articulated by Chazal.<br /><br />(c) <br /><br />God in Search of Man can be read as a several-hundred page answer to your questions.<br /><br />(g) <br /><br />A cynical response your questions about how we define Orthodoxy: I don't know, but I do know that around 50 years ago (give or take) when most people who considered themselves Orthodox had no problem with mixed dancing, mixed swimming, and in some cases even mixed synagogue seating and driving to synagogue on Shabbat - Orthodoxy simply meant membership in a synagogue that considered itself Orthodox, and maybe looked at keeping some form of kashrut and Shabbat as a norm/ideal.<br /><br />Rabbi Avi Weiss's wikipedia page cites an article in which he delineated the differences between Open Orthodoxy and the Conservative movement. Farber likely agrees with two of the principles, namely:<br /><br />- Orthodoxy believes that "legal authority is cumulative, and that a contemporary posek (decisor) can only issue judgments based on a full history of Jewish legal precedent", whereas Conservative Jews believe "precedent provides illustrations of possible positions rather than binding law. Conservatism, therefore, remains free to select whichever position within the prior history appeals to it".<br /><br />- Orthodoxy is characterized by ritually-observant members who "meticulously keep Shabbat (the Sabbath), Kashrut (the Dietary Laws), Taharat ha-Mishpaha (the Laws of Family Purity), and pray three times a day", whereas Conservative Judaism "is generally not composed of ritually observant Jews. Thus, only in our community if a 'permissive custom' is accepted, can it be meaningful."ATFhttp://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/704721/Rabbi_Jeremy_Wieder/Intro_to_Bible_Lecture_#01noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-62890077193853394792013-11-03T14:19:01.932-05:002013-11-03T14:19:01.932-05:00MGH has written some fantastic pieces on the whole...MGH has written some fantastic pieces on the whole Fraber phenomena.<br /><br />bit.ly/1fcL9ci <br />bit.ly/JQfj2Y<br />bit.ly/1axBfTnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com