tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post3112655315832997801..comments2024-03-18T03:40:39.185-04:00Comments on The Curious Jew: Manipulating TextsChanahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17655144434904957767noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-3163430440294113182008-02-25T15:05:00.000-05:002008-02-25T15:05:00.000-05:00I think science can help to better understand cert...I think science can help to better understand certain comments in the Torah, see this <A HREF="http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2006/05/fossils-what-do-they-really-mean.html" REL="nofollow"> post</A> for example.<BR/><BR/>However if the Torah would contain a clear factual error, then it simply means the Torah is bogus.jewish philosopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17987540457195983665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-3309184812809730762008-02-21T11:31:00.000-05:002008-02-21T11:31:00.000-05:00I agree with you about forcing texts to fit scienc...I agree with you about forcing texts to fit science (which isn't to say people don't come up with interesting ideas sometimes, but I wouldn't stake my <I>emunah</I> on such intellectual gymnastics).<BR/><BR/>I disagree that with the idea you seem to be presenting that the text has an absolute meaning that we can find purely by reading it with an open mind. No one ever has a completely open mind about any text. One does not have to be a postmodern relativist to realize that we always come to a text with a certain amount of personal and cultural 'baggage' that informs the way we read the text. People do "inflict any meaning [they] desire upon the Torah text", and not just the Torah, but every text. A look at academic discourse in the humanities will confirm this. The most we can do is try to have enough self-awareness to try to look past our preconceptions at the text itself, and be ready to jettison our fondest beliefs if we can not find adequate textual support for them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-38732248292885839532008-02-21T01:16:00.000-05:002008-02-21T01:16:00.000-05:00It looks like it doesn't want to work. Go to http:...It looks like it doesn't want to work. Go to <BR/><BR/>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com and page down to the story, <BR/><BR/>"Out Of The Mailbag - To YW Editor (Rejected To Seminary)"<BR/><BR/>You may have something useful to contribute there!Charlie Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17667135360784254574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-68482131765005446212008-02-21T01:15:00.000-05:002008-02-21T01:15:00.000-05:00Trying again with the yeshivaworld link:http://www...Trying again with the yeshivaworld link:<BR/><BR/>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/14685/Out+Of+The+Mailbag+-+To+YW+Editor+(Rejected+To+Seminary).htmlCharlie Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17667135360784254574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-24583619871570019142008-02-20T23:56:00.000-05:002008-02-20T23:56:00.000-05:00"The idea is that Chazal at one point in time knew..."The idea is that Chazal at one point in time knew everything"<BR/><BR/>Obviously a false statement. If they knew everything, why did they put so much in the talmud that is factually wrong (mostly their medical treatments). This was understood in the gaonic period. We are halachically forbidden to follow their guidance on those issues!<BR/><BR/>Off topic, you might find this of interest:<BR/><BR/>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/14685/Out+Of+The+Mailbag+-+To+YW+Editor+(Rejected+To+Seminary).htmlCharlie Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17667135360784254574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-59329421432622712932008-02-20T23:40:00.000-05:002008-02-20T23:40:00.000-05:00Sadly many miss the point of the Bible completely....Sadly many miss the point of the Bible completely. <BR/>It's an amazing book, and what separates it from all others is simple. Nothing mystical or magical, historical or scientific. Instead, human responsibility is its focus.Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08512231582715592098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-87238814489826985012008-02-20T22:01:00.000-05:002008-02-20T22:01:00.000-05:00They're not after truth any more than the Muslims ...They're not after truth any more than the Muslims or the Mormons are.Jewish Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04616617537150446818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-22014760969228756442008-02-20T20:54:00.000-05:002008-02-20T20:54:00.000-05:00It's like they say, hindsight is 20/20. It's so ea...It's like they say, hindsight is 20/20. It's so easy to know about an event or know a piece of information and then make the text fit. It's much more difficult to look at the text devoid of any expectations and discover meaning in it.<BR/><BR/>I, too, am troubled by times when science seems to contradict Torah or when people try to make Torah fit with the world when it seems kind of false. I once heard an explanation that science and Torah do not contradict each other in their ultimate truths and that if they seem to now, it is only because not everything in science has yet been discovered or not every meaning of the Torah has yet been unfolded. I like to think of these things in that respect as opposed to forcing Torah and science to make sense as they are right now, because I definitely don't think we are finished understanding Torah (if we were, why would we need to learn anymore?) and we're definitely not finished making scientific discoveries about the world. If people would relax more and just understand that Torah and science <I>will</I> come together at the end of the day, whether it's next week or in the next millennium, they would stop feeling the need to force it out of the little we know now.Erachethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00660802321998349072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-85511396228228799132008-02-20T19:48:00.000-05:002008-02-20T19:48:00.000-05:00thank you yosefthank you yosefHoly Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-44031905053111341472008-02-20T17:38:00.000-05:002008-02-20T17:38:00.000-05:00Shadal writes:“The wise understand that the intent...Shadal writes:<BR/><BR/>“The wise understand that the intent of the Torah is not to teach the natural sciences, but that the Torah was given only to direct humankind on the path of righteousness and justice[.] ... Therefore it is not proper for the Torah scholar to force the Scriptures from their literal meaning to make them conform with the natural sciences.”Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-11474335767676055212008-02-20T17:16:00.000-05:002008-02-20T17:16:00.000-05:00>If you can change the Torah to fit the current sc...>If you can change the Torah to fit the current scientific "truthful" norms, what does that say about the honesty of your scholarship?<BR/><BR/>Shadal's very first comment in Genesis speaks highly against this practice of fighting Torah to new scientific theories. I will get you the exact quote laterHoly Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.com