tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post2357746690187427470..comments2024-03-18T03:40:39.185-04:00Comments on The Curious Jew: I Am Not A TragedyChanahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17655144434904957767noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-87925578472663719502009-12-19T09:20:03.930-05:002009-12-19T09:20:03.930-05:00Michal, I think the older single woman who has had...Michal, I think the older single woman who has had sex such as yourself, even if it's not too great, is still better off than the one who hasn't. You're better off when knowing what you're not missing....<br /><br />And I say that though I've had a couple of really rotton sexual experiences.<br /><br />Related post <a href="http://kisarita.blogspot.com/2009/12/fifty-year-old-virgin.html" rel="nofollow"> The Fifty Year Old Virgin</a>kisaritahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18181012456635737873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-5234293577986579172009-12-19T08:37:24.550-05:002009-12-19T08:37:24.550-05:0027 yr old virgin- not a tragedy unless it is exper...27 yr old virgin- not a tragedy unless it is experienced as such by the person. Virginity does not deserve a stigma any more than singleness does.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-13786956664499836432009-12-19T08:34:29.344-05:002009-12-19T08:34:29.344-05:00chana, may you never experience being a single WOM...chana, may you never experience being a single WOMAN in your 30's. <br />(I LOVED my late 20s...)<br /><br />-Being repeatedly rejected for reasons of age takes a huge toll on your self esteem. If you are sexually active, the same men will view you as fun time but not marriage material. (so it has nothing to do with your attractiveness, but about some community norm).<br /><br />-Being alone, seeing your friends married, and losing them, as their families become the center of their lives and you move to the periphery. Now you still have a reasonably sized single's chevra.<br /><br />-You write that you have other ways to contribute to the world. For most of us that means a meaningful and successful career. But what if you don't become a huge smashing success in your career? What if you don't find your job incredibly meaningful, as many of us don't? Then what do you have? <br />(So i reccommend to all you young folk, DON'T, I repeat DON'T choose a career strictly for practical reasons with an eye on marriage and family- if that marriage and family doesn't materialize you'll be left with nothing)<br /><br />-if you are FEMALE and orthodox, rather than male, your opportunities to contribute in a Torah fashion are even more limited. You will seldom be asked to teach, to hold services etc. and you probably aren't able to, not having cultivated this area expertise. Depending on your community you may be barred from speaking in public, and you will have less access to persons in positions of authority and leadership, so how effectively can you contribute then?<br /><br />So yes, singlehood, if you are not prepared for it, can be tragic. <br /><br />But the community is going about it all wrong. It's not the community's job to have us married off, that's between us and our trusted and love ones. It's their job to relate to us as normal people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-69245201169763062372009-12-14T13:12:11.208-05:002009-12-14T13:12:11.208-05:00J-I am in upper thirties and have lived independen...J-I am in upper thirties and have lived independently since grad school in my early twenties. At one point, I lived in a singles community for years. I have a wonderful job and many blessings and relationships in my life that I appreciate immensely. I don't feel sorry for myself, nor do I live my life that way. Yet, being alone is still a huge black lonely hole that is extremely painful for me (and many of my other uber accomplished living full lives single friends). I don't appreciate your casual and callous attitude about another's heartache. Your cavalier attitude in your remark about such a deeply personal and complicated choice as contemplating single motherhood by in-vitro (esp for someone orthodox) leads me to wonder about you, or if you really are an older single person, as you state. Curious, are you male or female?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-1880854289625033772009-12-14T00:33:05.792-05:002009-12-14T00:33:05.792-05:00abraxas - you read my response entirely wrong. I w...abraxas - you read my response entirely wrong. I was not referring to the issues of waiting to get married when one has stable financial means at all. I was referring to the crisis mentality. Chana wrote her own perspective which is to fight that notion, and that is what I applaud. <br /><br />Many people I know don't even stop to think about this issue at all. So many people are simply lumping themselves into this category of older unmarried and consider themselves lost. As Chana wrote, there is no reason to willingly become a statistic or simply give up hope and become part of the ongoing system with its "crisis" mindset.Shades of Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02733139852424935591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-4441469285189125622009-12-13T10:11:09.892-05:002009-12-13T10:11:09.892-05:00Hey, Anonymous -
Speak for yourself. I'm old ...Hey, Anonymous - <br />Speak for yourself. I'm old and I'm single and I don't feel sorry for myself. Maybe you need to get a life - move out of your house to a singles community, get a job that pays, and enjoy yourself a little. If you're really desperate, get an in-vitro fertilization so you can have a kid.Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-48149732465970083882009-12-13T03:14:16.952-05:002009-12-13T03:14:16.952-05:00"a 27 year old single person isnt tragic. How..."a 27 year old single person isnt tragic. However, a 27 year old virgin is."<br /><br />Really? You know, it's not your place to judge other people's choices about their sex lives, so long as those choices don't harm others. Personal autonomy includes the right to never have sex, or to delay having sex until some specific point in life, be it marriage or something else. Come back when you have something meaningful to say. Learning how to use punctuation and capitalization might also be good for you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-38296068355178912452009-12-12T21:41:31.184-05:002009-12-12T21:41:31.184-05:00beautiful, powerful, brilliant post!beautiful, powerful, brilliant post!Shoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13085648573425127432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-60959740899554152032009-12-11T12:57:22.212-05:002009-12-11T12:57:22.212-05:00And so I say again...even if I am never married, I...<i>And so I say again...even if I am never married, I will not be a tragedy. I am not someone to be labelled and pitied. My sorrow, should it exist, is my own, not the fodder for discussions behind the mechitza.</i><br /><br />Others judging the older unmarried is unacceptable. The idea of marital status as the only indicator of whether a person is happy or not is ridiculous. Blanket pity might be insensitive, but compassion for those who themselves are sad about being unmarried is important. There are people who receive neither judgement about being unmarried nor pressure to do something about it yet are desperately lonely, are sad about having no one with whom to make a life. There are people who feel as you do at one age, but after a decade or two with no one on whom to count and with whom to share life's burdens these feelings change.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-55038035587276109982009-12-11T12:06:58.700-05:002009-12-11T12:06:58.700-05:00This is a kind gesture, but with all due respect, ...This is a kind gesture, but with all due respect, you don't know what you are talking about. As you said, you are 20, and it shows. Get back to me if you are still living an orthodox life and single in ten years (or before). I'm not so sure you wouldn't be feeling the enormous pain, despite intellectually or rationally still agreeing with and believing what you wrote. Of course, characterizing unmarried people as tragedies is disturbing and awful. The worst part, is that there is truth to it(if you remove the ridiculous age quota!). Imagine treating a childless couple with that kind of public taunt. Never mind that by being single, by definition (in the orthodox community) single women suffer this pain of infertility and loss of opportunity too. The whole issue and topic is extremely complicated. It is not so simplistic like you present it. God bless your young soul for not understanding that. I hope you won't ever ocme to know this experience. Good shabbos and a freilichin chanuka.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-72391129158369790572009-12-10T20:34:13.279-05:002009-12-10T20:34:13.279-05:00: P: Pהצעיר שלמה בן רפאל לבית שריקי ס"טhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04835340110056405173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-91750237186648896022009-12-10T20:09:42.474-05:002009-12-10T20:09:42.474-05:00It's so cool that a man should say something l...It's so cool that a man should say something like that.Michaltastikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06358698308334285154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-4634535884321970702009-12-10T18:19:43.114-05:002009-12-10T18:19:43.114-05:00You're saying it (i.e. the post) as if you don...You're saying it (i.e. the post) as if you don't know as well as we all do that the Ultra-Orthodox perceptive on marriage is based on a number of premises we don't agree with, for example that the only purpose of a woman is to get married, so that she can give birth to Jewish MALES who are capable of doing mitzvot, and that unmarried a woman is useless. ..if you don't agree with that premise there's essentially nothing to talk about..הצעיר שלמה בן רפאל לבית שריקי ס"טhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04835340110056405173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-61324985027345225222009-12-10T18:12:27.491-05:002009-12-10T18:12:27.491-05:00Check out what happened to me back in October.
ht...Check out what happened to me back in October.<br /><br />http://michalbasavraham.blogspot.com/2009/10/shidduchiim-strikes-again.htmlMichaltastikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06358698308334285154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-31876658713734458402009-12-10T18:00:22.016-05:002009-12-10T18:00:22.016-05:00As someone who's had a lot of sex, I concur. I...As someone who's had a lot of sex, I concur. It's only good when you care about the person, so marriage... yes....Michaltastikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06358698308334285154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-14822939866037750662009-12-10T16:10:03.033-05:002009-12-10T16:10:03.033-05:00>a 27 year old single person isnt tragic. Howev...>a 27 year old single person isnt tragic. However, a 27 year old virgin is.<br /><br />Sex with other people is overrated.Rosy Pnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-26160134356132645452009-12-10T16:01:25.677-05:002009-12-10T16:01:25.677-05:00Anon Dec 10, 2:24 pm said:
"a 27 year old s...Anon Dec 10, 2:24 pm said:<br /><br /> "a 27 year old single person isnt tragic. However, a 27 year old virgin is."<br /><br />And why is that? I'm an open-minded single frum young woman and I'm 27. I date and yet not able(yet) to find the right man to share my future with. Last I checked, marriage is this "covenantal relationship between a man and a woman in an emotional, physical, moral, and spiritual union, exclusively and for life." It sounds as if you are somehow suggesting that I simply marry someone for the sake of marriage and thus solve the issue or perhaps have an affair since "27 year old virgin is" a tragedy. I find your comment distasteful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-5933568259305719672009-12-10T14:44:06.340-05:002009-12-10T14:44:06.340-05:00a 27 year old single person isnt tragic. However,...a 27 year old single person isnt tragic. However, a 27 year old virgin is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-47954526645742718702009-12-10T10:47:42.493-05:002009-12-10T10:47:42.493-05:00>I applaud your personal strength and fortitude...>I applaud your personal strength and fortitude for thinking about this in an honest and frank fashion<br /><br />Sometimes when I read stuff like this, it really underscores the insanity of the frum world - it's like going into a time machine...<br /><br />Getting married when you're financially stable and ready for it seems like common sense, but it is applauded as an exhibition of "personal strength and fortitude"?<br /><br />What does that tell us about the mindset of an average frum young person?abraxasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-63512158167717054122009-12-10T01:25:07.202-05:002009-12-10T01:25:07.202-05:00This piece is amazingly moving and grippingly trut...This piece is amazingly moving and grippingly truthful. I applaud your personal strength and fortitude for thinking about this in an honest and frank fashion - and for sharing the results with us!Shades of Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02733139852424935591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-66294472712324185982009-12-09T23:50:29.536-05:002009-12-09T23:50:29.536-05:00Enjoy :)
http://vidyid.com/csi-shidduchim.htmlEnjoy :)<br /><br />http://vidyid.com/csi-shidduchim.htmlShades of Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03029177164921795725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-69347083276215013202009-12-09T23:36:21.732-05:002009-12-09T23:36:21.732-05:00does anyone have the link to the hilarious youtube...does anyone have the link to the hilarious youtube purim parody about someone calling a rabbi who is someone's shidduch reference? They ask questions like which brand paper towels do they use, was the father only convicted of white collar crime so that his jail has daf yomi & chassidishe shchita?<br />ThanksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-6746357703848188582009-12-09T23:20:48.665-05:002009-12-09T23:20:48.665-05:00The book I referred to is called "Feeling G...The book I referred to is called "Feeling Good"(the " FG Handbook" is a different book by the same author). <br /><br />Hope the page link works now:<br /><br />http://books.google.com/books?id=UaEg_ujTKEcC&pg=PA311&lpg=PA311&dq=I+can+not+be+a+truly+happy+and+fulfilled+human+being+unless+I+am+loved+by+a+member+of+the+opposite+sex&source=bl&ots=C_QKLatdbs&sig=BDb9iactbstmI8yLv9oxBtGDC8I&hl=en&ei=_nUgS8ePF5GftgfIs6WgCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=falseShades of Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03029177164921795725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-42825210916883103422009-12-09T22:52:01.273-05:002009-12-09T22:52:01.273-05:00(Cont.)
In this sense, the thrust of most of Dr. ...(Cont.)<br /><br />In this sense, the thrust of most of Dr. David Burn's chapter of "The Love Addiction" is relevant. <br /><br />Of course, the lack of a marital relationship is a void, as indicated in the Torah sources, above. But perhaps in line with the Chovos Halevavos, above, the thrust of Burn's chapter is to tell people who are alone and moping, that they can enjoy activities alone, and still get pleasure from life. Interestingly, in an example on pages 317-318, a person who begins to take pleasure in doing activities alone, develops independence and an infectious joy of living, and her newfound aloneness, paradoxically, leads to finding a spouse.<br /><br />The links to the Bunim and Burns books, if they fit:<br /><br />http://books.google.com/books?id=WaObe1cRLc0C&pg=RA2-PA326&lpg=RA2-PA326&dq=without+his+wife+to+speak+to,+to+share+his+private+joys+and+personal+doubts,+Bunim+needed+a+suitable+outlet+for+his+intimate+and+emotional+feelings.+Shortly+after+Blanche's+death,+he+began+to+use+a+tape+recorder.+At+first,+he+simply+unburdened+his+grief&source=bl&ots=s6wTloR0qP&sig=zNXuCZ2n7KjJW9PfbmU9GU3HpVw&hl=en&ei=pGkgS6qMDoGpnQfP7MH2BQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=without%20his%20wife%20to%20speak%20to%2C%20to%20share%20his%20private%20joys%20and%20personal%20doubts%2C%20Bunim%20needed%20a%20suitable%20outlet%20for%20his%20intimate%20and%20emotional%20feelings.%20Shortly%20after%20Blanche's%20death%2C%20he%20began%20to%20use%20a%20tape%20recorder.%20At%20first%2C%20he%20simply%20unburdened%20his%20grief&f=false<br /><br />http://books.google.com/books?id=UaEg_ujTKEcC&dq=feeling+good+burns&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=tFogS-anApWknQe8vMTWDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CCoQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=&f=falseShades of Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03029177164921795725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-90477803271441273282009-12-09T22:42:00.297-05:002009-12-09T22:42:00.297-05:00Chapter 12 of Dr. David Burn's best-selling &...Chapter 12 of Dr. David Burn's best-selling "Feeling Good Handbook" , titled "The Love Addiction" begins with an assumption, which he challenges:<br /><br />"I can not be a truly happy and fulfilled human being unless I am loved by a member of the opposite sex. True love is necessary for happiness". <br /><br />When I read this, I thought that it contradicted Chazal in Yevamos who say that "Any man who does not have a wife, is without happiness..."; the Torah says this as well, that "it is no good for a man to be alone".<br /><br />I think the Chovos Halevaos provides an additional perspective. In Shar Habitachon(4:3) he says that someone alone without family has, as well, a path of bitachon in Hashem, for "the soul is itself a stranger in the world"; also, "even those with relatives and family, may one day be alone, too". (The Chovos Halevavos seems to be referring to a married person who finds himself, in a far-off place, away and alone, without any family.)<br /><br />An example of the last point of changing circumstances might be found in the biography of Irving Bunim z'l. He was a very successful community leader, who relied on, and shared his life with his wife. His son, Amos, describes his father's grief upon her death("A Fire In His Soul", pg 326), <br /><br />"Without his wife to speak to, to share his private joys and personal doubts, Bunim needed a suitable outlet for his intimate and emotional feelings. Shortly after Blanche's death, he began to use a tape recorder. At first, he simply unburdened his grief. Later, he began to create a kind of verbal memoir of his life and times, of his enormously varied experiences, and the gedolim from whom he was privledged to learn...".<br /><br />The author comntinues that these tapes eventually became a legacy for Bunim's grandchildren, and a source for the biography which the public benefited from.Shades of Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03029177164921795725noreply@blogger.com