tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post1363064755068492634..comments2024-03-18T03:40:39.185-04:00Comments on The Curious Jew: Let's Lie To Our Husbands And Wives Now, Shall We?Chanahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17655144434904957767noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-57956683908479817502010-03-10T21:27:39.479-05:002010-03-10T21:27:39.479-05:00Rabbi Daniel Z. Feldman wrote me a letter with ext...Rabbi Daniel Z. Feldman wrote me a letter with extensive sources and explanation regarding this post which you can read <a href="http://curiousjew.blogspot.com/2010/03/rabbi-daniel-z-feldman-on-husbands.html" rel="nofollow">here.</a>Chanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17655144434904957767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-44255725346154076012010-03-10T16:52:26.246-05:002010-03-10T16:52:26.246-05:00Anon March 10, 2010 3:28 PM said:
I am not the one...Anon March 10, 2010 3:28 PM said:<br />I am not the one assuming the negative. It is the author and the people posting comments<br /><br /> Anon, once again,this site is an OPEN FORUM FOR DISCUSSION. Don't you get it?! Sheesh!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-76088183882304778762010-03-10T15:28:40.683-05:002010-03-10T15:28:40.683-05:00I am not the one assuming the negative. It is the...I am not the one assuming the negative. It is the author and the people posting comments. Why cant people defer their judgement to those who obviously have more life experience and wisdom? Again, the overwhelming majority of the EXPERTS IN THE FIELD OF MARITAL THERAPY WOULD AGREE WITH RABBI FELDMAN (who is extremely wise himself). I just dont understand how these young and inexperienced people think they know better?? <br /><br />It is a very dangerous way of living life, thinking that at a very young and inexperienced age, one can only criticize views they dont agree with, instead of maybe understanding that older and more experienced people may have an understanding of life issues that they simply dont have.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-75124794329468462322010-03-10T11:55:32.377-05:002010-03-10T11:55:32.377-05:00March 10, 2010 10:40 AM said
"... has it eve...March 10, 2010 10:40 AM said<br /><br />"... has it even entered anyone's mind here that perhaps there is a wisdom behind this logic that you just dont understand?? "<br /><br />Excuse me, Anon, but this is an open forum for discussion. Chana's post is well formulated and the readers state their opinions and thoughts. Why assume the negative?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-71138714377392968372010-03-10T10:40:42.609-05:002010-03-10T10:40:42.609-05:00With all do respect to the author, has it even ent...With all do respect to the author, has it even entered anyone's mind here that perhaps there is a wisdom behind this logic that you just dont understand?? Large majority of experts in the field of marraige therapy would agree with Rabbi Feldman. Is there any reason we should take the word of young, single, inexperienced people posting on this site over the wisdom and experience of the experts?? Im not saying that because someone isnt married they can not have any opinions on marraige, but you do have to recognize that there are things you will not understand about marraige. Just because you dont understand it, doesnt mean it isnt true. It may just mean you have to be patient and open your mind to the possibility that you dont know everything and that certain ideas and undertstanding comes with age and experience that you lack.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-14845367028767383872010-03-09T20:48:43.554-05:002010-03-09T20:48:43.554-05:00Chana,
yeah, "Dana" & Cole OrtizChana,<br />yeah, "Dana" & Cole OrtizThe Talmidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-28738307510441108482010-03-09T19:34:25.207-05:002010-03-09T19:34:25.207-05:00Husbands and wives should be upfront about their p...Husbands and wives should be upfront about their past marriages/children. Period. I'm assuming that the reason for the pidyon haben being fake is that the woman had already borne a baby boy.<br /><br />As for sexual history alone, I think that one should always tell the truth when his or her partner asks. <br /><br />However, the need to volunteer one's sexual history depends on the situation. If the other person assumes his or her partner has a pristine past, then volunteering more details would be the ethical approach. However, if partner realizes that something might have occurred in the significant other's past but simply doesn't press the subject (for example, if someone is open about being a BT), then it is up to that partner to ask about any previous sexual history--if he or she deems it necessary to know (due to the prevalence of STDs, I happen to think it's rather important).TPWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-17859986274103702142010-03-09T19:29:45.541-05:002010-03-09T19:29:45.541-05:00Stern friend said:
Why do people hide these things...Stern friend said:<br />Why do people hide these things? We can't know. And even if we did, it may not seem justifiable for us, but it is not our right to judge.<br /><br />To this I have the following :<br /><br />"There is no such thing as an inconsequential lie." Whether it's a white lie, or whether it's a grandiose scheme. Any lie you tell has consequences. It has effects on your relationships, it has effects on your communication, it has effects on you mentally and emotionally, and it has effects on you physically because of the stress you're putting on yourself in being dishonest." {Honesty workshop)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-23154718774512190862010-03-09T18:58:43.703-05:002010-03-09T18:58:43.703-05:00I know of a number of instances where one spouse w...I know of a number of instances where one spouse was married very briefly and then married again. In all of these cases, the spouse knows.<br /><br />Stern Friend:<br /><br />How could a woman not tell her husband she was married before? Doesn't the ketubah have to be different when a woman's subsequent marriage(s)?BTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-36348707593891321832010-03-09T18:52:39.360-05:002010-03-09T18:52:39.360-05:00Chana- This general situation is probably more com...Chana- This general situation is probably more common than you think. I actually know several people who were previously married but it was short-lived, no children, and the current spouse doesn't know (luckily, none of these happen to involve kohanim). Do I think it's strange? Absolutely. I could not imagine not telling my husband something that major. However, I don't think it's fair to say that when people do hide those kinds of things that their marriage is "based on lies" or doesn't have a "true foundation", or is somehow a "sham". You will one day get married and find out that every marriage is different and just because one couple interacts in a way that you and your future husband would personally not be happy with, it does not mean that their marriage is bad, dysfunctional or unhappy (obviously, I do not include any kind of abuse in this category- abuse is wrong and must be dealt with, even if the person being abused claims to be "fine"). <br /><br />Why do people hide these things? We can't know. And even if we did, it may not seem justifiable for us, but it is not our right to judge. I know that in one of the cases I mentioned above, the person had previously been married to a non-Jew and for whatever reason wants to keep that totally under wraps, even from his wife (I only know because I was at that first wedding as a young child). It doesn't seem to affect their lives, and it seems unlikely that he will ever cross paths with the ex again. Like I said, it seems strange and I personally wouldn't hide something like that, but I don't think we, as outsiders can judge what others do in the context of their own relationships.a stern friendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-51895993853881918522010-03-09T18:12:43.420-05:002010-03-09T18:12:43.420-05:00The Talmid,
LOL. You're talking about Dana an...The Talmid,<br /><br />LOL. You're talking about Dana and Ortiz? That probation officer is going to get them into trouble... *smile*Chanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17655144434904957767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-49308035161773602282010-03-09T17:52:16.533-05:002010-03-09T17:52:16.533-05:00oh, and BTW Chana,
isn't '24' so cutti...oh, and BTW Chana,<br />isn't '24' so cutting edge, discussing these issues before they suddenly burst in the J-blogosphere?The Talmidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03864554535184476585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-32721302925724317762010-03-09T17:36:00.648-05:002010-03-09T17:36:00.648-05:00See this post on Bein Din L'din
http://bdld.i...See this post on Bein Din L'din<br /><br />http://bdld.info/2009/06/07/in-defense-of-lashon-hara-part-i-shidduch-lists-cancer-depression-and-aids/<br /><br />I offer it without any comment.The Talmidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03864554535184476585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-36406256491060039072010-03-09T15:44:16.495-05:002010-03-09T15:44:16.495-05:00"Sheker HaChen VeHevel HaYofi...""Sheker HaChen VeHevel HaYofi..."Dorron Katzinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08275399228339470400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-83987632976278073102010-03-09T15:35:18.647-05:002010-03-09T15:35:18.647-05:00EJB,
"Her sinful past will not affect her ma...EJB,<br /><br />"Her sinful past will not affect her marriage in the slightest."<br /><br />But her lying and covering up will!<br /><br />Mystery Woman,<br /><br />If you have an opportunity to continue to lie about your past or to come clean, I don't think it would be irrelevant. I think you should come clean, deal with the consequences, and begin the true part of your marriage.<br /><br />Ksil,<br /><br />The nice thing about true marriages is that the husband truly sees his wife as beautiful. Not that they don't put the time, effort and energy in to look that way, because of course they each would. But he wouldn't have to lie because in his eyes, his wife- even if she has stretch marks or has gained some weight or otherwise looks different than she did when she first married him- is beautiful.Chanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17655144434904957767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-12708225647491963062010-03-09T15:17:58.770-05:002010-03-09T15:17:58.770-05:00"honey, do i look fat in this dress?"
L..."honey, do i look fat in this dress?"<br /><br />LIEksil lo yavinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-87376722275266705432010-03-09T14:33:02.139-05:002010-03-09T14:33:02.139-05:00Aaron, It should have been discussed...I totally a...Aaron, It should have been discussed...I totally agree with that. What I don't agree with is discussing it now, when nothing good can come of it.Mystery Womanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06261372717440893787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-41584712729382949832010-03-09T13:45:25.169-05:002010-03-09T13:45:25.169-05:00The question, unfortunately, is not what should ha...The question, unfortunately, is not what should have been done before the marriage, but what should be done now. I do not claim to have an answer.Dorron Katzinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08275399228339470400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-76426653685478025402010-03-09T13:42:54.539-05:002010-03-09T13:42:54.539-05:00Excuse me, Mystery Woman, but there is no present ...Excuse me, Mystery Woman, but there is no present without the past. And me thinks that a past of that magnitude must be discussed no matter what, there are no ifs or buts about it,- or the whole relationship is nothing but a sham.Aaronnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-45490947784644673202010-03-09T13:10:23.118-05:002010-03-09T13:10:23.118-05:00In that example, they are already married. Maybe s...In that example, they are already married. Maybe she should have told him before they got married, but she didn't, and that's not the point here. Point is, now that they are here, with a baby boy, does she tell him...and I agree that she should not. At that point, it will do more harm than good. Why break up a marriage? What she should have done previously is irrelevant now.Mystery Womanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06261372717440893787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-57551120814507927702010-03-09T12:55:45.662-05:002010-03-09T12:55:45.662-05:00I didn't read all of the comments, but the maj...I didn't read all of the comments, but the major difference between the cases mentioned in Rabbi Feldman's book and lying about medical history is that if the woman removed all traces of promiscuity from her nature, her sinful past will not affect her marriage in the slightest. So, it will not affect her husband in any way. If she has poor health, on the other hand, she is more at risk to chas vishalom die prematurely and leave her husband (and kids) without a wife (and mother). This will affect the marriage, and therefore must be mentioned.<br />Of course, this is hinged upon the assumption that the woman has completely changed her ways. I don't know how this is determined, who makes this determination, and how likely this scenario is. But, assuming she has, I hear what the Rabbis are saying. <br />Also, the Rabbis may only be talking about a b'di eved situation.EJBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-33560184478680125552010-03-09T10:48:24.745-05:002010-03-09T10:48:24.745-05:00I agree that the deception should not have occurre...I agree that the deception should not have occurred in the first place, and that there should be disclosure of important information before marriage. However, the shaila that the Rabbi in question was dealing with is not whether the information should have been disclosed before marriage, but what to do now that it hasn't been. The principle of shalom bayis can only be applied after marriage, so the logic used to determine whether or not to tell a husband/wife certain information would not carry over to the same situation between two people who were just dating.commenternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-42544197727539856352010-03-09T10:41:48.180-05:002010-03-09T10:41:48.180-05:00One of Faye Kellerman's books deals with an FF...One of Faye Kellerman's books deals with an FFB who had a child out of wedlock that was adopted. Her parents tried to deal with the problem by marrying her off to a Levi.Dorron Katzinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08275399228339470400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-24009562883168459402010-03-09T10:39:58.458-05:002010-03-09T10:39:58.458-05:00My wife and I are Baalei Teshuvah. We are old eno...My wife and I are Baalei Teshuvah. We are old enough to have children who are older than most graduate students.<br /><br />When we dealt with these issues when we were dating, we decided that we needed to disclose to each other WHAT we had done in our pasts, but not with WHOM. We have lived in the same city for many years before we started dating. This policy spares potential discomfort. Neither of us is very good at being "poker faced".BTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12970718.post-61364767991054137232010-03-09T10:17:15.056-05:002010-03-09T10:17:15.056-05:00And if your spouse can't accept you knowing th...And if your spouse can't accept you knowing that information, maybe you shouldn't be together in the first place!Irina Tsukermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10964771563778702009noreply@blogger.com